This page is part of the homeplace advertisement-free web portal. (It is politics-free too, except for 3 sections which are obviously not.) These details are directly referenced from the base page on The Forgotten Soldier, here.


Please do the following:

  1. Go to http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/ 

  2. On the left, click on GROSSDEUTSCHLAND INFORMATION

  3. Click on  GUY SAJER: The Forgotten Soldier

There, you find this:
"For those of you who are using this as a "Bible" for Grossdeutschland, I recommend extreme caution.  There is a substantial body of criticism surrounding this work which generally has caused historians to discount it as what it is purported to be.  Simply stated, most historians tend to regard the book as a novel, probably not even written by a soldier. "

And a person named Brown is quoted:  "The Forgotten Soldier goes to great lengths to talk about not being fed -- without exception, every German to whom I have spoken about the subject has affirmed that the logistics system, so long as the unit was not cut off or so far away as to be out of supply, continued to work very well right up until 8 May 1945.  While they admit to shortages of specific items, they claim to have continued to receive supplies and were not reduced to foraging.  (Another reason I don't trust that book.)"

The same material seems to also be here. [Site 'temporarily unavailable' in May 2008 - FNC]



Below are some excerpts from a long exchange on Feldgrau.com .
http://www.feldgrau.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6928&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 [By May 2008 the contents here had changed. See also http://feldgrau.com/ and http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/ - FNC]

From: Rudi S.
Posted: Sun Sep 14, 2003 12:44 pm    Post subject: The Forgotten Soldier
[The following is also here, appearing to have been authored by Douglas. E. Nash, not Rudi S. - FNC]
I recently established contact with Guy Sajer, the author of the well-known autobiography The Forgotten Soldier, a military literature classic that describes the author's experiences fighting for Germany against the Soviet Union during World War II. With regard to a previous letter to the editor by Lieutenant Colonel Edwin L. Kennedy, published in your March-April 1996 issue--"Military Professionals do not Use Fiction as Fact"--I would like to set the record straight.
After 18 months of research, I was able to locate Sajer. He lives in a rural village approximately 50 miles east of Paris under his nom de plume. Although not his real last name (Guy is his real first name), Sajer is his mother's maiden name. She was born in Gotha, Germany. He enlisted in the German Wehrmacht in 1942 under a German name to avoid the ridicule he would have received had he used his real French last name. To  verify his book's authenticity, I asked Sajer a series of questions that had been raised by Kennedy in a Spring 1992 Army History article titled "The Forgotten Soldier: Fiction or Fact?"
Sajer quickly responded to my query. Although he admitted that minor details such as uniform insignia, weapons nomenclatures and other such things were not important to him, he stands by what he wrote 30 years ago. He insists that he did not set out to write the definitive history of World War II, only what he had personally experienced while fighting in the elite Grossdeutschland division on the Russian Front. He admitted that he could have erred in describing locations and chronology, but that he wrote things as he remembered them. In his letter to me, he stated that "In the darkness of a night in Russia, you could have told me that we were in China, and I would have believed you." Further details on Sajer's wartime and postwar experiences are described in an upcoming article I wrote for Army History, scheduled for publication in their Fall 1997 issue.
Kennedy's own key witness, former Grossdeutschland Division historian and reconnaissance squadron commander Major (Ret.) Helmuth Spaeter, who claimed that The Forgotten Soldier was fictional, has now changed his thinking. After reading several letters from Sajer, Spaeter admitted in a letter to me that he now believes that Sajer could have been a member of that famous division after all. Spaeter wrote about his new-found admiration for Guy Sajer and planned to reread his own German copy of the book, titled Denn diese Tage Quall war gross: Erinnerung eines vergessenen Soldaten (These Days Were Full of Great Suffering--Memories of a Forgotten Soldier, (Munich: Verlag Fritz Molden, 1969) [But it was originally in French.] in order to examine it from a more unbiased point of view.
Hopefully, Sajer's efforts to clear his name will reestablish the prominence his book has earned on many a soldier's bookshelf. Readers can rest assured that when they pick up a copy of The Forgotten Soldier, they will be reading one of the best and most realistic books ever written from an infantryman's perspective, regardless of which side he fought for in World War II.
Lieutenant Colonel Douglas E. Nash, USA, US Special Operations Command, MacDill AFB, Florida

Rudi S.



From: 'Christian'
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:15 pm
Quote: Sajer will be the Forgotten Fabricator


I second that one Frederick. [Frederick L. Clemens]

Guy Mouminoux, also known in the comics industry as Dimitri Lahache and in the publishing industry as Guy Sajer, was born on 13.01.1927. He was 15 years old in 1942, when the compulsory military service was introduced in Alsace.

..................................

From: 'Christian'
Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:59 pm    Post subject: The Improbable Soldier      Reply with quote
Here is a link to an interview given by Dimitri aka Guy Mouminoux aka Guy Sajer in December 2003.

http://www.brusselsbdtour.com/interviews/interviews_html/interview_dimitri.htm [In August 2006 this link is invalid. But the content probably was moved to here: http://www.brusselsbdtour.com/default.aspx?section=interviews&interId=50 – FNC]

Quote:
J'étais encore dans la marine nationale, c'était juste après la guerre, en 1946 je pense.

He claims that he was serving in the French Navy in 1946 (Probably a French aircraft carrier Wink ). Given the fact that he was 19 at the time, this could indeed correspond to the compulsory military service requirement in France. However, I know several real "malgrés-nous" from Alsace and not a single one was required to serve a year in the French forces after the war. Isn't that strange?

Quote:
BrusselsBdTour : Votre roman, "Le soldat oublié", publié chez Robert Laffont sous le pseudonyme de Guy Sajer vous a valu d'être qualifié d' "auteur maudit" de la BD française. Regrettez-vous de l'avoir publié ? [Do you regret to have published?- FNC] [Note that Bande Dessinée , which means Cartoon in English, is here abbreviated to BD. -FNC]
Dimitri : Pas le moins du monde. [Not the least in the world.- FNC] Si j'ai choisi de publier mon roman sous un pseudonyme était justement pour ne pas tout mélanger. [If I chose to publish my novel under a pseudonym it was precisely in order to not mix everything. - FNC]

It is interesting that he describes the "Improbable Soldier", sorry the "Forgotten Soldier", as a "roman" which in French means "novel". In short people, we are talking about fiction. Why would he not refer to his book as his "mémoire"? Isn't that strange?

Quote:
Quand l'Alsace, où je vivais, a été annexée par l'Allemagne, j'avais 16 ans. D'un camp de jeunesse à Strasbourg, je passe à un camp de jeunesse à Kehl, en Allemagne. L'Arbeitsdienst, un groupe militarisé mais non armé n'était pas très glorieux. On rêvait d'être de vrais soldats, en ignorant tout de la guerre. Par un enchaînement naturel, je me retrouve dans la Wehrmacht, l'armée allemande. [When Alsace, where I lived, was annexed by Germany, I had 16 years. D' a camp of youth in Strasbourg, I pass to a camp of youth to Kehl in Germany. The Arbeitsdienst, a group militarized but unarmed was not very glorious. One dreamed to be of true soldiers, unaware of everything about war. By a natural sequence, I find myself in the Wehrmacht, the army of Germany. - FNC]

Alright, he explains that he started in a youth camp in Strasbourg, then moved to a youth camp in Kehl, then went to the RAD and was incorporated in the Wehrmacht. This scenario is plausible, however it would mean that he came out of RAD in mid-1944 and would have been sent to a military unit for further training. In short, what he tells in this interview actually could have happened, however this is quite a different story from what he wrote in the "Improbable Soldier". Isn't that strange?

Quote:
" Le Soldat Oublié " a été réédité des dizaine de fois, et a rapporté une fortune à Robert Laffont. Il m'a permis de vivre pendant des années. [" The Forgotten Soldier" was republished ten times, and paid a fortune to Robert Laffont. It allowed me to live during years. - FNC]

And here is the kicker, he states that the "Improbable Soldier" made a fortune for the publisher Robert Laffont and it was his major source of revenue for years. Now that is not strange, it is just good business sense.

Cheers,

Christian




PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 7:47 pm    Post subject:      Reply with quote
Überhauptnichtsführer wrote:
Perhaps "poor memory" and a poor English-to-English translation can explain why you turn Sajer's ....before you call Sajer/Mouminoux a liar, you could do well to at least quote him word for word, and not make up claims not present in the text.


Okay, I apologize that I did not have my copy of "Quotes from Chairman Sajer" in my back pocket when I made my post. I realize what a crime that must seem to the Indocrinated.

Here's a Sajer quote from that same section which shows that he is a liar and a fabricator:

Page 1, "At my request, I am assigned to the 26th section of the squadron commanded by Flight Commandant Rudel."

- No such thing as a 26th section of a squadron (Staffel). A Staffel usually had 9 bombers or 12 fighters, certainly not 26 of anything.
- Rudel in Sep 42 (not Jul 42) became Staffelkapitaen for 1./StG2 on East Front (nowhere near Chemnitz)
- No enlistee could request such a specific assignment unless his father was Hermann Goering
- Sajer makes no mention of any prior flight or technical training whatsoever which is absurd considering his specific request for assignment with Rudel. The competition for flight candidates was intense, no authentic pilot trainee would ever forget or leave out his motivation for wanting to be a pilot or the hardships of his training period. He says later that training for the infantry was much more severe than for the infantry [luftwaffe? - FNC]  - that can only be said by someone who never went near pilot training. Luftwaffe Pilot candidates were severely tested both mentally and physically.

So in one sentence Sajer gets every detail wrong and demonstrates that he has a romantic notion of what pilot training was like. His time in the Stuka is a "glorious memory" only in the minds of the naive.

From: Christian
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2004 6:00 pm    Post subject:      Reply with quote
Thomas,

You are missing the point if you believe that critics of this book are basing their opinion on a few embellishments/mistakes here and there. The main reason why some people argue that it can not be qualified as a historical autobiography and has to be treated with some skepticism, is that it contradicts a number of realities and facts.

...........

Guy Mouminoux (born January 1927) is a French citizen (albeit having a German mother) and was 15 years old in 1942 when the compulsory service was introduced in Alsace. The decision to draft Alsacians was made in August 1942 and the initial incorporation in October focused on the classes 1920-1924. These recruits had already completed the RAD service and would now be sent to various units/branches for basic training. In short, Guy Mouminoux would have had to complete his RAD service in late 1941/early 1942 at an age where he was 14/15 years old! In addition, he would have never gone through basic training as I understand that he claims to have been on the Russian Front in late 1942.

While French citizens were also able to volunteer for the Wehrmacht/Waffen SS, only about 1600 did so and about 800 ended up joining German forces in 1941. The age requirements were the same as in Germany and individuals had to be between 18 and 45 years old. These volunteers were primarily comprised of right wing, anti-Bolshevik individuals. Again, it does not appear based on his story that he was a V.L.F. volunteer either.

I have seen numerous accounts in French where he is described as a “malgré-nous”, which is the description of Alsacians drafted in the German army. Again, the age and date discrepancies and the fact that he would have avoided going through the same basic training channels as thousands of other recruits, can only raise major skepticism.

.....................Mouminoux should have no problem today to produce either French or German military records proving his claims. The years of service count towards pensions and are well documented from German (WASt, etc.) and/or French (Anciens Combattants, etc.) side. Why not ask him to produce these records instead of explaining the historical discrepancies?

Again, I don’t want to take anything away from the message of this novel, however it would be great if people would take it for what it is and quit coming up with excuses for making it what it clearly isn’t.

Cheers,

Christian






Frederick L Clemens
Contributor


Joined: 27 Sep 2002
Posts: 334
Location: Sterling VA
   
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:29 pm    Post subject:     Reply with quote
Christian, could you or anyone else provide a translation of Dimitri's comments about his book from the interview you pointed out? [Not there, in August 2006. But it's here.- FNC]

I think this is a crucial piece of information in this debate. For example, the book is called a "roman" (novel) and Guy Sajer is described as Dimitri's pseudonym. If this interview is the real thing, it should settle a number of key points about the nature of the book and "Sajer".

Here is the French:

BrusselsBdTour : Votre roman, "Le soldat oublié", publié chez Robert Laffont sous le pseudonyme de Guy Sajer vous a valu d'être qualifié d' "auteur maudit" de la BD française. Regrettez-vous de l'avoir publié ?

Dimitri : Pas le moins du monde. Si j'ai choisi de publier mon roman [Doug Nash: nowadays, the term "Roman" in French also means just about any kind of inexpensive paperback book - fiction, non-fiction, biography, whatever....while 20 or 30 years ago it did usually mean a work of fiction. - FNC] sous un pseudonyme était justement pour ne pas tout mélanger. Mais quelques pseudo-journalistes de l'époque se sont empressé de faire le lien entre les deux. Maintenant tout le monde sait que c'est moi, mais à l'époque, j'étais furieux. Je me suis fait virer de "Pilote" à cause de çà et cela me poursuivra jusqu'à ma mort et je ne comprends toujours pas pourquoi. C'est une histoire, la mienne, celle d'un homme forcé de faire des choses qu'il n'avait pas envie de faire. Quand l'Alsace, où je vivais, a été annexée par l'Allemagne, j'avais 16 ans. D'un camp de jeunesse à Strasbourg, je passe à un camp de jeunesse à Kehl, en Allemagne. L'Arbeitsdienst, un groupe militarisé mais non armé n'était pas très glorieux. On rêvait d'être de vrais soldats, en ignorant tout de la guerre. Par un enchaînement naturel, je me retrouve dans la Wehrmacht, l'armée allemande. Qu'auriez-vous voulu que je fasse ? Comme déserteur, on m'aurait fusillé. A part la guerre qui a été une véritable atrocité, j'ai de bons souvenir de cette époque-là. Pendant la guerre, je ne savais pas ce qui se passait. On traînait dans la boue, on ne dormait pas et on avait peur, c'était la terreur. J'ai appris énormément de choses après la guerre, auparavant je n'ai pas eu de problème moral ou éthique puisque je n'avais aucune idée de ce qui se passait. Mais je ne regrette rien, je suis content d'avoir connu çà, même si c'était très dur. J'ai vu les russes se conduire comme des monstres, je suis allé sur le front de l'Est et j'ai vécu les plus grandes peurs de ma vie. Pourtant je suis retourné plusieurs fois en Russie depuis, je ne suis amer envers personne. Mais il est clair que dès la publication du " Soldat Oublié ", j'ai été catalogué " facho ". Si les gens veulent le croire c'est leur problème, il y a bien longtemps que je ne me préoccupe plus de tout çà. " Le Soldat Oublié " a été réédité des dizaine de fois, et a rapporté une fortune à Robert Laffont. Il m'a permis de vivre pendant des années. C'est toujours aujourd'hui un best-seller traduit bon nombre de langues. Je suis en pourparlers avec Paul Verhoeven depuis quelque temps pour la réalisation du long métrage.

And here is a portion of Dimitri's bio:

Dimitri est né le 13 janvier 1927 à Paris. Dès l'âge de 3 ans, il se met au dessin. Son enfance est d'ailleurs marquée par la recherche incessante du papier qu'il noircit avec assiduité. Très jeune, il quitte Paris pour l'Alsace, où il passera son enfance et son adolescence. Par la force des choses, à 16 ans, en 1943, il se retrouve enrôlé dans la Wermarcht. Il sera très vite envoyé sur le Front de l'Est, en ex-URSS. De cette expérience traumatisante, il tirera un ouvrage, "Le soldat oublié", publié dans les années 60 sous son nom de plume, "Guy Sajer". Après la guerre, il monte à Paris où il connaît les petits boulots conjugués aux investigations auprès des éditeurs. Il débute dans "Nous les jeunes" fin 1946-1947 avec "Les aventures de Monsieur Minus" et signe quelques strips dans "Coeurs-vaillant". Il signe alors du nom de "Mouminoux".
=================================

From: Christian

PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:57 pm  

Frederick, [Frederick L. Clemens]

Here are both translations:

BrusselsBdTour: Your novel “The Forgotten Soldier”, published by Robert Laffont under the pseudonym of Guy Sajer, was the main reason why you were described as a “dammed author” by the French cartoon industry. Do you regret that you published the book?

Dimitri: Not at all. If I chose to publish this novel using a pseudonym, it was mainly to avoid mixing things up. However, a few pseudo journalists at the time were eager to make the correlation between the two (*[He is referring to his profession as a cartoonist and his book.]). Now everybody knows that it is me, although at the time I was furious. I was fired by “Pilote” for this reason and this will haunt me to my death as I don’t understand why. It is a story, mine, the story of a man forced to do things that he did not want to do (**). When Alsace, where I lived, was annexed by Germany, I was 16 years old (***[Alsace was annexed in August 1940 – Mouminoux was 13 at the time. I sure it is his counting ability that must be failing here. Wink]). From a youth camp in Strasbourg, I “crossed” to a youth camp in Kehl, in Germany. The Arbeitsdienst, a non-armed, militarized group was not very glorious. We were dreaming of being real soldiers, yet we ignored everything of war. By a “natural sequence” I find myself in the Wehrmacht, the German Army. What would you have wanted me to do? As a deserter I would have been shot. Apart from the war which was a real ordeal, I have good memories of that time. During the war, I did not know what was going on. We were struggling through the mud, we would not be able to sleep and we were afraid; it was terror. I learned a tremendous amount after the war; before I had no moral or ethical issues as I did not know what was going on. However, I do not have any regrets, I am happy to have had this experience even if it was hard. I saw the Russians handle themselves like monsters; I went to the Russian front and had the biggest fears of my life. Even though I have gone back to Russia on several occasions, I am not bitter toward anybody. However, it is clear that as soon as the “Forgotten Soldier” was published, I was labeled as a fascist. If people want to believe this it is their problem; it has been a long time since I have worried about such things. “The Forgotten Soldier” was published in several editions and made a fortune for Robert Laffont. It has been my main source of income for years. It is still to this date a best seller, translated in numerous languages. I am in discussions with Paul Verhoeven for some time now about the possibility to make it into a movie.

Comments:
(*) He is referring to his profession as a cartoonist and his book.
(**) This statement again would indicate that he was drafted by the German Army against his will - "malgré-nous.
(***) Alsace was annexed in August 1940 – Mouminoux was 13 at the time. I sure it is his counting ability that must be failing here. Wink


Dimitri's bio:

Dimitri was born on January 13th, 1927 in Paris. At three years of age he starts to draw. His youth is characterized by his search for paper that he attentively draws on. He leaves Paris for Alsace at a young age and this is where if is going to spend his youth and adolescence.
By the turn of events, in 1943, at 16 years of age, he finds himself drafted by the Wehrmacht. [Wait a minute!  The Prologue starts out "July 18, 1942. I arrive at the Chemnitz barracks, ...".  From Jan 13, 1927 (his birthday) to Jul 18, 1942 is 15 years 6 months, and 5 days. And he is already IN the Wehrmacht!? - FNC]  He is very rapidly sent to the Eastern front, in the ex Soviet Union. From this traumatic experience he will write the book “The Forgotten Soldier”, published in the 60’s under the pen name “Guy Sajer”. After the war, he comes back to Paris where he takes on small little jobs that he finds by contacting editors. He starts in “Nous les Jeunes” end of 1946 – 1947 with “The adventures of Mister Minus” and signs a few comic strips in “Coeurs-vaillant”. At that time he signs by the name Mouminoux.

Overall, I need to add another comment. When I read this intereview in French, I do at no time detect any evidence that we might be dealing here with somebody who is senile, etc. It is obvious that Mouminoux is very good with words and he uses them in a very careful/measured manner. This is particularly true in the passage about his incorporation into the German Army. Not a single conclusive statement. It is always a "natural sequence", "finding himself", "force to this", etc.

This guy knows exactly how far he can go...

Christian
===================================
From:  Frederick L Clemens
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2004 2:10 am   

Thanks very much for the translation, Christian. I think this interview clears up some basic points which people have been debating since the book was first published in English.


These facts - as established by the author himself - explain many things in the book, but leave other questions still open.


I am curious whether the author served an "Al-Gore-Tour" on the Eastern Front or whether he was a true combat soldier. Many people claim the "emotions are real". I am not impressed by that argument. Any good fiction writer can "fake sincerity", especially when he is free to invent situations and characters as this author was.

I remain with my judgement that TFS is severely flawed as a novel of the Wehrmacht due to its many erroneous elements and unrealities, but I will reexamine the book over time with the help of this new information. I will be curious to see if there are clues to suggest or deny that the author ever served in Grossdeutschland or at least knew someone who did. It is clear that even if the author was a GD grunt, he made use of outside sources post-war for some of the main GD locations. The real determination may come from examination of micro actions such as his claimed "Siege of Boporeivska".


Here are Bio and Interviews of Bio of Guy Mouminoux / Dimitri / Dimitri Lahache / Guy Sajer in French with an English translation.

The Forgotten Soldier -- the author.doc